Converation thread

I totally agree. Once people recognize the humanity of preborn children, the whole abortion worldview collapses

Not true. The humanity of an unborn child is actually completely irrelevant to the issue; even if we assumed that all people had full personhood at the moment of conception, it still wouldn't change the fact that we do not have the right to use our mother's body without her consent. In fact, NO person has the right to use ANY other person's body without their consent, even when life is on the line. Again, neither a fetus nor a grown adult person has the right to use another person's body without their consent. As such, when a woman is pregnant and does not want the child,…  Read more that child is fundamentally violating her consent by using her body against her wishes, albeit unknowingly, and she has every right to stop them from continuing to do so, if she chooses to act. The "humanity" is irrelevant, because all that matters is our consent over the use of our own body.

You need to understand how human reproduction works. A life that didn't exist (before the woman got pregnant) couldn't possibly have made the woman pregnant. Excluding cases of r*pe, the woman gave consent to participate in a particular activity that she knew could make her pregnant. Blaming the pregnancy on the unborn child is just ridiculous. A child can't create itself, it is created by the mother and father. Even in cases of r*pe, the child is completely innocent and has the same right to their body as their mother.

I was also pro-choice a few months ago with many arguments that I thought were solid. Then I started exposing myself to anti-abortion arguments and I slowly started to change my stance. If you believe in science and that all innocent human beings should have human rights, then abortion must be wrong.

No one is blaming the pregnancy on the fetus, and I'm not sure why you assumed that to begin with, considering that obviously doesn't even make sense.

The part you seem to be misunderstanding is that pregnancy itself IS an act in which a fetus is literally using the body of the mother; the fetus is physically attached to the mother's body and is using her body to live. If the mother does not consent to her body being used for this pregnancy, then she has every right to stop it from continuing. The fetus does not have the right to use the mother's body, and is dependent on…  Read more the consent of the mother to allow it to continue to be there in the first place. Even if a grown adult person was attached to you and using your body to keep themselves alive, you would still have every right to decide that they cannot continue to use your body if you don't want them to, even though they will die without you. Again, no one has a right to use another person's body, for any reason (that includes pregnancy), and only you have the right to decide who can or cannot use your body, for any reason (including pregnancy). If you don't want a baby to use your body for pregnancy, then you have every right to stop them, even if that means they die, because they did not have the right to be there in the first place, and they definitely do not have the right to override your consent.

You can unplug yourself from a machine without touching the stranger (presumably), but abortion does not have that luxury; that is why these kind of hypothetical analogies can only go so far as a comparison for pregnancy. Ultimately, if the only way to end this hypothetical situation was to personally kill the stranger that you are hooked up to, then yes, I would consider that a valid and justified means of defending your autonomy that is being violated. Of course it is unfortunate that someone else had to put the stranger into that situation where neither of you had a say to begin with, but that still doesn't detract from your own right of bodily autonomy. Violating your consent is still violating your consent, regardless of who did it or why, and although the stranger is not guilty of putting themselves into that situation, they areRead more still violating your consent.