God defines marriages as between a man and woman in Genesis 2. Humans cannot override God's definition.
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35 Replies
@B9ZN7GX5mos5MO
Gay marriage, while against the religious morality of some Americans, the Bible should have no bearing on the legal system, as expressed in the 1st Amendment. If a religion were to outlaw interracial marriage, for instance, that would not justify its prohibition.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution5mos5MO
If the Bible had no bearing on the legal system, murder and theft would be legalized. Agreed that outlawing interracial marriage would be unjustified, but the reason it's unjustified instead of just unpopular is because God creates everyone with equal worth. Ultimately I don't think the government should even have a definition of marriage, but if it does, it shouldn't be encouraging harmful physical behavior like homosexuality.
@TBGP8COSSSocialist 1mo1MO
The bible was not the first authority that considered murder and theft wrong. Though the US founders may have made them illegal based on biblical beliefs, the overall moral belief came from before that. If God makes everyone with equal worth, then why are straight people the only ones deserving of having a happy marriage with the person they love? Also, why would homosexuality be harmful? It's simply two people who love each other and happen to be the same gender, and it isn't personally affecting anyone who doesn't agree with it, so I don't see why it would be an issue.
@kaithoff8888Independent 5mos5MO
Separation of church and state allows for other religions to exist in America. Not everyone is Christian. Being gay is not a choice and gay marriage should be allowed based on separation of church and state.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution4mos4MO
Homosexual lust may happen without a conscious choice, but acting on it is a choice. And that choice injures everyone involved. The State shouldn't be endorsing or promoting harmful practices.
@BBLDCR4 4mos4MO
@B9XBSM6 5mos5MO
Many people do not believe in God and even if they do, God also encourages to not hate love even when it's something different from yours.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 5mos5MO
Whether or not someone believes in God has no bearing on reality, any more than what one believes about the shape of the Earth affects its actual shape. Good law is based on reality, not opinion. I don't see how it's "hateful" to disagree with someone's lifestyle, especially when that lifestyle is objectively harmful and biologically damaging to all involved. If you love someone, you tell them the truth before they hurt themselves.
@TBGP8COSSSocialist 1mo1MO
@BB75KZW4mos4MO
Not everyone in the US is a Christian so this statement goes against their beliefs. The church and state should always remain separate. You cannot tell someone what to believe and punish them for their lifestyles.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 4mos4MO
Punishing homosexual people for their lifestyle and refraining from having a government definition of marriage that includes their behavior aren't the same thing. Nor does this constitute telling them what to believe. If separation of church and state meant that Biblical and U.S. law could never overlap, then murder and theft would be legal, because both the Bible and U.S. law outlaw them.
@TBGP8COSSSocialist 1mo1MO
Of course Biblical and U.S. law can overlap. It's just that law shouldn't be based on a text based on the beliefs of one religion. And not allowing same sex marriage is effectively "punishment." Imagine if only same-sex marriage was legal. How would you as a straight person feel being legally unable to marry the person you love?
There should be a separation between church and state. Ones religious beliefs have no place in politics nor should reflect what’s truly moral or immoral.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution4mos4MO
Separation of church and state means the State can't establish an official religion or force anyone to practice a religion. It doesn't indicate that the legal basis for the State's laws can't be a religious text. If that was the case, murder would be legal because "Thou shalt not kill" is violating separation of church and state. God's Law is the only reliable determiner as to what's moral or immoral.
This is a country for all people, not just those of one faith. Government marriage and religious marriage are not the same.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 5mos5MO
@B9Z355WConstitution5mos5MO
Not everyone believes in the same God. There are some that say loving fellow man regardless of their romantic partner is more important.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 5mos5MO
@B9Z9X755mos5MO
Genesis 2 has no bearing on the laws of the United States. Marriage in current law is a civil contract that should be open to all consenting adults.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution5mos5MO
If marriage has no higher basis than human contract, why should the state be involved in defining/rewarding it? Why should the state be incentivizing it with tax breaks and other benefits? And Genesis 2 actually has several relevant passages to U.S. law: intrinsic human worth, Sunday as a day of rest, gender equality, and the innate dark nature of humans. Removing its influence leads to a reductio ad absurdum.
@BB5T8FB 4mos4MO
Marriage is a civil issue, not a religious one, and has no impact on others; individuals might not share or follow religious views.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution4mos4MO
Marriage has always been a religious matter, long before the modern state existed. When it gets turned into a civil issue, people are incentivized to marry for selfish reasons (tax breaks, financial convenience, etc.) Marriage should be based on mutual selflessness, which doesn't allow for homosexuality.
@B9YXKCK 5mos5MO
Religion is based on each independent person, and one should not attempt to enforce the rules of their religion onto another.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 5mos5MO
Any time someone forbids murder, they're "enforcing religion on someone else" (Thou shalt not kill). Religion isn't based on individual preference. Their choice of religion may be, but religions themselves are based on truth or falsehood. Separation of church and state means you can't force someone to practice your faith, not that a society's laws can't be inspired by religious ethics. When you take that away, you're left with the state atheist governments we saw in the USSR and China.
@B8BNQ6L8mos8MO
It's called separation of church and state, which was a principle established by our founding fathers.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 4mos4MO
Separation of church and state refers to not establishing an official Church of America or forcing anyone to adhere to a faith. It doesn't indicate that religious philosophy/ethics can't serve as a foundation for our laws. If that's what it meant, we'd have to legalize murder, because making murder illegal would be violating separation of church and state (Thou shalt not kill).
@BB26VJY5mos5MO
Not everyone believes in your god and that's none of your business, no one cares about your faith mind your business no one's forcing you to marry your same sex it really doesn't affect you who people choose to be with, and who goes to heaven or hell
@Desmond-HawkConstitution4mos4MO
@B9YYKRL5mos5MO
God does not exist. These are fictitious rules/laws. Individuals should be free to believe and pratice whatever they believe in as long as it doesn’t violate someone else’s inalienable rights.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution5mos5MO
The reason that rights are inalienable is because God has instituted them as such. The rule you're calling "fictitious" are what created the society that allows you to call them fictitious. Homosexual behavior is biologically harmful, and physical injury does violate another person's right to physical safety.
@B9ZWQCS5mos5MO
God doesn't have to be everything that people care about. And people should be able to have their own freedom on who they want to be with for their life. Along with the fact that god isn't the one who is living with you in your home accompanying you, but your lover that you choose is.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution4mos4MO
Choosing a lover shouldn't be based on the pleasure they can bring you. That's a selfish motive. Homosexuality therefore is an inherently selfish instinct. Heterosexual marriage promotes procreation and mutual selflessness. All people are equal, but not all lifestyles are equally moral. If the government is going to try to define marriage, it shouldn't define selfishness as marriage.
@TBGP8COSSSocialist 1mo1MO
Isn't that how everyone chooses to marry? If you aren't marrying someone because of the pleasure you get from being with them, then are you really in love? Procreation is not the entire purpose of marriage, I'd assume you aren't against heterosexual couples marrying but not having children.
Furthermore, why are your beliefs the standard for a moral lifestyle? Other people shouldn't be held to whatever your idea of "moral" is. If I believed that heterosexual marriage was selfish and immoral, should you also be held to my belief and not be able to marry?
@hnuss16Constitution 5mos5MO
No counter argument, I agree. But understand that not everyone holds to this position by faith and thus more arguments from other foundations are needed. This is a valid argument but in s multicultural society needs additional support.
@Desmond-HawkConstitution 5mos5MO
Agreed that for the sake of persuasion, we need to approach this issue from multiple angles. If I remember correctly, the question asked for my "best counterargument," and in light of ultimate Truth, God decreeing something is the ultimate counterargument. But to your point, I've emphasized the harmful physical effects of homosexuality (and therefore its violation of human safety) in some of my other replies.
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